View Issue Details
| ID | Project | Category | View Status | Date Submitted | Last Update |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 0000009 | IDE Simulator | [All Projects] General | public | 2021-04-15 19:08 | 2021-08-12 13:05 |
| Reporter | smoobandit | Assigned To | |||
| Priority | urgent | Severity | block | Reproducibility | always |
| Status | new | Resolution | open | ||
| Summary | 0000009: ODE not detected on 486 PC, using VLB IO, ESS Audiodrive, or SB16 IDE | ||||
| Description | Newly arrived ODE is not detected by either DOS 6.22 (VIDE-CDD.sys or SBIDE.sys) or Windows 95B. The device does connect over USB using PUTTY with a windows 10 machine. All commands work, so the device is not DOA. Nothing on the 486 PC can detect the ODE. Using the monitor command, various "unimplemented ATA commands" are reported when config.sys is being processed, and drivers are trying to load. These are reported in additional information. The most prevalent are: When trying to connect via an IDE port on a soundcard. "Unimplemented ATA command 0C" When trying to connect via the VLB IO card: "Unimplemented ATA command 6C Unimplemented ATA command 21" Swapping the IDE cable does not resolve the issue. | ||||
| Steps To Reproduce | Connect the card to a 486 PC build around a GA-486VS motherboard, using the IDE ports on a VLB IO card, or an ESS Audiodrive, or SB16 (CT2800). Boot to DOS or Windows 95B. Drive not detected. | ||||
| Additional Information | Reset: hard Finish: ATA Unimplemented ATA command 10 Finish: ATA 04 Unimplemented ATA command 63 Finish: ATA 04 READ SECTORS Finish: ATA 04 READ SECTORS Finish: ATA 04 READ SECTORS Finish: ATA 04 READ SECTORS Finish: ATA 04 READ SECTORS Finish: ATA 04 READ SECTORS Finish: ATA 04 READ SECTORS Finish: ATA 04 READ SECTORS Finish: ATA 04 READ SECTORS Finish: ATA 04 READ SECTORS Finish: ATA 04 DEVICE RESET Reset: software Finish: ATA Unimplemented ATA command 6C Finish: ATA 04 Unimplemented ATA command 21 Finish: ATA 04 Slave with Compact flash on master position, win95b bootdisk Reset: hard Finish: ATA Reset: register Finish: ATA Reset: register Finish: ATA Reset: register Finish: ATA DEVICE RESET Reset: software Finish: ATA Unimplemented ATA command 6C Finish: ATA 04 Unimplemented ATA command 21 Finish: ATA 04 Slave on ESS Audiodrive, DOS 6.22 (vide-cdd.sys) IRQ/A Reset: hard Finish: ATA Unimplemented ATA command 0C Finish: ATA 04 Unimplemented ATA command 0C Finish: ATA 04 Unimplemented ATA command 0C Finish: ATA 04 Slave on ESS Audiodrive, Win95b Reset: hard Finish: ATA Slave on ESS Audiodrive, dos 6.22 (sbide.sys) IRQ /A or 11 Reset: hard Finish: ATA Unimplemented ATA command 0C Finish: ATA 04 Slave on ESS Audiodrive, dos 6.22 (vide-cdd.sys) IRQ /11 Reset: hard Finish: ATA Unimplemented ATA command 0C Finish: ATA 04 Unimplemented ATA command 0C Finish: ATA 04 Unimplemented ATA command 0C Finish: ATA 04 Unimplemented ATA command 0C Finish: ATA 04 Unimplemented ATA command 0C Finish: ATA 04 | ||||
| Tags | No tags attached. | ||||
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Thanks for filing - I may need to pick up an ESS Audiodrive to test that combination on. I have tested it on a 486 which supports VLB, but only has VGA VLB installed with just plain 16-bit ISA I/O for IDE/serial/parallel, where the Compactflash master/PCB slave did work but was intermittently a problem (but I also have problems with the CF on the bus alone, so it's difficult to debug). I did add a second ISA I/O card to the 486 to run the PCB alone and that also worked fine, so I'm wondering if there's a timing issue with the sound card-based buses. I also wonder if there's something special about that VLB I/O card, so I'll try to hunt one of those down too. I've been working specifically on the CF master/PCB slave config this week (both trying to figure out why my CF card is just generally flakey and also make sure my PCB is happy sharing the bus with it) so I should have a beta update for you to try soon. |
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Which driver were you using for the VLB I/O card? |
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Thanks for the quick attention. I do have a non-VLB IO card which I will test tomorrow. When you mention the driver for the I/O card, I presume you mean vide-cdd or sbide. When I was testing that I was just using the win95b boot disk, which cycles through a number of drivers. The first entry up there got the descriptive line cut off when I cut and pasted. It was the PCB running as master ONLY on the I/O card, and booting from the win95b boot disk. If I recall the initial unimplemented commands were during POST, and the DEVICE RESET happened when the boot disk started trying drivers. Couple of other things. I was running an Am5x86 at 160Mhz, which will have a bus speed of 40Mhz. That might be throwing things off. When I test out the non-VLB IO card, I'll revert to a DX2-66 chip to rule out the bus overlock as well. Just mentioned since you raised the timing issue. The IO card I used today was a QDI QD6500A. Thanks. |
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OK, I have been able to do some more testing today. Firstly, I connected up a real CDROM drive (52x, manufactured April 01, so exactly 20 years old!). This worked fine with the cables, both sound cards (Audiodrive and SB16), and the QDI I/O card. I also swapped out the QDI for a PTI-227B ISA only card. The real CDROM worked fine on all of these in DOS and Win95B. I also swapped out the overclocked Am5x86 for an Intel 486 DX2 running at 66Mhz. None of this made any difference to the PCB. Using the same cables and cards as the real CDROM drive, it performed the same as yesterday in the 'monitor' logging. I won't paste in the reports as they are identical. No driver could detect it, from ACER(vide-cdd), Oak, SBIDE, or the plethora of drivers on the win95B boot disk. To clarify - this testing included running the PCB in master mode on the ISA I/O card without a HDD present. This worked fine with the real CDROM, but the system could not detect the PCB at all. I do not have another 486 motherboard to swap out. Many thanks, |
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Hey, still working on the issue/waiting for test hardware to arrive, but I did have one other question - did you happen to try with OAKCDROM.SYS or BTCCDROMI.SYS? Those are the primary ones I've been using to test (the latter as it has a 'retry' function, so I didn't need to continually reboot to try firmware changes, and the former as I remember it being popular in the '90s when i first got a CD-ROM drive). |
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As I understand it the SBIDE.SYS is basically the OAKCDROM.SYS, so i tried that. In any event, the Win95b boot floppy has a bunch of CDROM drivers on it. They appear in the config.sys as follows: device=himem.sys /testmem:off device=oakcdrom.sys /D:mscd001 device=btdosm.sys device=flashpt.sys device=btcdrom.sys /D:mscd001 device=aspi2dos.sys device=aspi8dos.sys device=aspi4dos.sys device=aspi8u2.sys device=aspicd.sys /D:mscd001 None of those manages to work. Booting from this disk produces the first, and longest, monitor log sequence above. Presumably because it is testing so many drivers one after the other. I do not recognise the "BTCCDROMI.SYS" that you mention. It's not on the win95b boot disk, and google is not forthcoming. Do you have a link that you could share, and I will test away. Thanks. |
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I picked up a replacement IDE cable to rule out that being an issue. I had been using an 80pin three connector cable (motherboard, slave, master) or a 40pin two connector cable (motherboard, master) to test. I wanted to rule out something weird so picked up a 40pin 3 connector cable for testing. It works fine with the real CDROM drive on either connector, and fails with the PCB on either port. While testing I cycled through a few different drivers, and used the analyser tool for the first time to dump put some more data. You might find it useful. All data dumps are produced at the point when config.sys accesses the driver in DOS 6.22. I ran the tests 3/4 times and noted slightly different outputs. I was just rebooting in-between trials with no other changes. Despite the changes in the data reported by analyser there was no visible change on the 486 PC. The driver reported a failure to find a drive in the same way each time - even with the huge response from the OAK driver. LG (E-IDE/ATAPI CD-ROM DRIVER Ver 1.25) (GSCDROM.SYS) analyser Capturing IDE traffic (press any key to end) iAAIAAAFgAIWAAg4CoCQAAKAAAsAADAAANAAA4DoDwAIOAqC8AU analyser Capturing IDE traffic (press any key to end) s//8AAAFgAIWAAg4CoCQAAKAAAsAADAAANAAA4DoDwAIOAqC8AU analyser Capturing IDE traffic (press any key to end) OB6AAAAFgAIWAAg4CoCQAAKAAAsAADAAANAAA4DoDwAIOAqC8AU monitor Monitoring IDE commands (press any key to end) Unimplemented ATA command 0C Finish: ATA 04 SBIDE (Oak, OTI-011 - Rev D011V110.ENG007) analyser Capturing IDE traffic (press any key to end) OB6AAAADgKgsAAAz+VbABVMAAA6hoCaEAKoQAuhADKEANoQA6no analyser Capturing IDE traffic (press any key to end) s//8AAADgKgsAAAz+VbABGMAAA4OsLP//M/1Wz//zP//OAqCwAFDABVsAFUwAFDqGgJoQAqhAC6EAMoQA2hADqegPuQg4DoLwBROD7 analyser Capturing IDE traffic (press any key to end) s//8AAADgKgsAAAz+VbABVMAAA6hoCaEAKoQAuhADKEANoQA6no analyser Capturing IDE traffic (press any key to end) OB6C8ffDgKgsAAAz+VbABVMAAA6joCaEAKoQAuhADKEANoQA6no monitor Monitoring IDE commands (press any key to end) Unimplemented ATA command 0C Finish: ATA 04 VIDE-CDD analyser Capturing IDE traffic (press any key to end) OB6AAAALgCgOAqC8AUTwAIvAFGwAADz/svAFGwAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAA analyser Capturing IDE traffic (press any key to end) v//8AAALv//OB6C8AUTwAIvAFGwAADz/svAFGwAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAA analyser Capturing IDE traffic (press any key to end) v//8AAALv//OB6C8AUTwAIvAFGwAADz/svAFGwAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAAKEAAoQAChAA Unimplemented ATA command 0C Finish: ATA 04 Unimplemented ATA command 0C Finish: ATA 04 OAK (OTI-91X Rev D91XV352) analyser Capturing IDE traffic (press any key to end) v//8AAAFgAIWAAg4HoCQAAKAAAsAADAAANAAA4HoDwgIOAqC8AU analyser Capturing IDE traffic (press any key to end) 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analyser Capturing IDE traffic (press any key to end) OB6C8ffFgAIWAAg4DoCQAAKAAAsAADAAANAAA4HoDwgIOAqC8AU monitor Monitoring IDE commands (press any key to end) Unimplemented ATA command 0C Finish: ATA 04 |
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I've used 80 pin and 40 pin cables for testing, both should work, so I'm (sadly) not surprised it didn't help. Still working on it as we speak, had a little time constraint with other things but that should be easing up now - I have been able to reproduce though, which definitely helps. I've also seen it occur on the 486 I used to test that previously was fine, so I think something may have just subtly regressed. |
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That's interesting. Is the firmware for that earlier working version available for testing? Might be helpful to confirm at this end. Would an early firmware even work on the latest revision of the hardware? |
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The firmware for the original board won't work (it will boot on the new boards, but a few pins have their levels reversed so most machines, definitely including old PCs, will get upset) but there might be a version for that board in my 'alpha' directory - it was the new revision of the board I was testing on the 486 last time I saw it work! I'll see if I can find something, but even if not, it's still a good place to start debugging. |
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Just wanted to add that I have done some testing using the 2021-04-01 firmware on a 286 and 386 with 3 different multi IO cards/IDE controllers and several ATAPI drivers (including OAKCDROM.SYS) and all fail to detect the drive with the same problem smoobandit reported. I also tried it on two different 486 systems, one with a basic ISA IDE controller and the other with a VLB IDE controller with the same results. I would really like to see this fixed and would love to test any future firmware updates that you may come up with. I have quite a collection of older PC hardware and systems and would love to be able to use this to replace my ATAPI cdrom drive which are becoming increasingly problematic. |
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Still working hard on this - I know what the problem is (bit 7 seems to be getting stuck - 0x6C should be 0xEC (IDENTIFY DEVICE), 0x21 should be 0xA1 (IDENTIFY PACKET DEVICE), and if you make it past those, you'll get READ SECTOR (0x20), which should be 0xA0, PACKET. However, I'm not sure what broke the timing, so I've been slowly debugging code to get to the bottom of it. I did actually find a couple of minor issues, but still am working on the main one. Either way, as soon as I've either got to the bottom of it, I'll post a new firmware update here for everyone to try! |
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I finally had the opportunity to hook the PCB up to a 2006 era motherboard. For the avoidance of doubt it works fine. I even used exactly the same Compact flash drive that had dos 6.22 on it that was running in the 486. So same OS, same driver. I imagine you know this already, but felt it was worth mentioning. Athlon based mobo = working PCB, 486 based mobo = not working PCB. |
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One more quick update - I think I've made progress, and both the 386 with DOS and the 486 with Windows 95 are now seeing the drive again, just occasional data corruption I'm getting to the bottom of. I'm hoping to be able to post a firmware for people to try here this weekend. |
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Please give this build a try - not sure it's perfect, but I refactored some HDL and found a number of minor bugs that would affect PC compatibility, as well as working around some issues I saw with my 486 (very noisy chip select lines). This seems to work for me on Windows 95 acting as the secondary device on the same IDE channel as a CF card acting as boot drive. dos-refactor.fw (273,664 bytes) |
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Madesomegood progress with the newdos-refactor.fw tonight. Both my 486 machine and my M570 with an AMDk6-2 400 see the drive as a master on the secondary IDE channel, I can load OAKCDROM.SYS and mount a disk. I can DIR the CD and see the contents but when I try to run anything it either says "Program too big to fit into memory"or some other issue. I can copy all the files to a folder on my C: drive but when viewing data like a read.me the files are all corrupt. I need to test with some other SYS files to see if any others make a difference. I was going to load CDGOD55 onto a floppy tomorrow and I will work through the drivers and see if that makes a difference. The good news is the bios is seeing the drive and I can get all the way to mounting and unmounting. |
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Made some good progress with the newdos-refactor.fw tonight. Both my 486 machine and my M570 with an AMDk6-2 400 see the drive as a master on the secondary IDE channel, I can load OAKCDROM.SYS and mount a disk. I can DIR the CD and see the contents but when I try to run anything it either says "Program too big to fit into memory"or some other issue. I can copy all the files to a folder on my C: drive but when viewing data like a read.me the files are all corrupt. I need to test with some other SYS files to see if any others make a difference. I was going to load CDGOD55 onto a floppy tomorrow and I will work through the drivers and see if that makes a difference. The good news is the bios is seeing the drive and I can get all the way to mounting and unmounting. |
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I have also now been able to rest the dos-refactor.fw firmware. In short, the 486 system does now detect the CDROM running from the IDE port on the SB16 (CT2800). This is using the vide-cdd.sys or the sbide.sys drivers. The stand alone OAK drivers also detect the drive, as do the LG drivers. I am also seeing data corruption, so it remains unusable. This does not seem to vary from driver to driver. Unlike the post above, I have been able to view to contents of text or batch files without obvious corruption. However, when trying to run games from the drive, they either fail absolutely, or have repeated mini-hangs (presumably when trying to load corrupted assets). DOTT is a useful test, because there is nothing by way of HDD installation other than a .cfg file to hold the settings. It loads the start screen and music, but the intro sequence is littered with long pauses while it fails to load audio assets from the CDROM. During these mini-crashes, the 'monitor' log is littered with: PACKET: SCSI: READ (10): address=00 02 01 CD size=00 01 Finish: SCSI PACKET: NOP Finish: ATA 00 PACKET: SCSI: READ (10): address=00 02 01 CE size=00 08 Finish: SCSI The 'PACKET: NOP' line does not appear when the device appears to be operating normally. it is consistent only with a failure to load data from the image. |
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I have not yet tried other options like running the PCB as a slave to the HDD, or a different cable, or running it on the Noughties hardware where it was already working. I will report back when I have done so. |
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That's pretty good news - almost working, so the refactoring has addressed the main problem. Just need to get to the bottom of the data corruption thing then! |
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I went back and switched drivers and can duplicate smoobandit's setup. . I can't nail down where the corruption lies and if it is specific to .bin/cues or also iso's, the size of the file, or if that makes a difference what so ever. I was able to take the descent.iso mount it, read the readme, run the install all the way through but then the actual setup.exe and descentr.exe were both throwing errors. I was able to run the disc speed test in Dune all the way through and watch monitor for anything odd, it seemed to be fine but again, dune wouldn't run. For StarWars TieCD in .bin/.cue format I couldn't even display the readme without corruption in the file. I've got about 5 machines through the era that I can test with if you want, but I don't want to waste a bunch of time if you have an idea of what it is. @colin, did you ever get a DOS utility working to run disk select commands from the system it is on? I was going to create a serial interface script that just passes to the com port and then us the local USB port on my Socket 7 machine but if you had something better let me know. Also, I noticed on my setup when I am jumping between discs I have to run disk disconnect first or the original disc stays resident in DOS like it is still mounted. running 'disk disconnect' then 'disk select game.iso' solves that for me. |
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I do have a beta version of the DOS utility that I can find and send you, but I wasn't super happy with it - MSCDEX provides no mechanism to send random SCSI commands so I used the DOS ASPI drivers, but with the "vendor specific" SCSI command region, it turns out some DOS ASPI drivers just silently drop those commands. The Oak Technologies one doesn't, but it has problems. I experimented with just driving the hardware directly, but this upsets EMM386 surprisingly. I'll probably refactor it to move the "vendor specific" SCSI commands into one of the standard ATAPI commands using a vendor-specific code page, which hopefully the ASPI drivers don't know to drop, and that should solve the major problem (though still require the ASPI driver in DOS, there's at least some utilities to load and unload the drivers on demand). These problems don't matter so much on Windows where memory is less of an issue so ASPI can just be installed without impacting games, but I'll hold off writing the Windows app until I figure out the actual details of the command. |
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Quick update, please try this build. It seems to have fix any corruption I saw (which was very mild, much less catastrophic than your reports, but I'm pretty sure the corruption comes down to specific machines and what's going on on their CPUs so I was probably just lucky). I was able to launch Tempest 2000 for DOS under Windows 95 (via its built in ATAPI driver) with this, with no visible graphical corruption either (which I did see previously). dos-refactor-fix.fw (273,664 bytes) |
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Yup, I think that did it. Installed Star Wars, 7th Guest, and Mortal Kombat 3 from their respective CDs and did not see any corruption on my K2 machine. All games loaded without issue. I'll keep playing through my Top 300 Pack. There are about 100 CD games in that. Your DOS utility would be a god send for me specifically as I have scripts that auto mount the appropriate CDs when the game is selected. Happy to be a guineapig. flynnsbit@gmail.com Setup M570 Board K6-2 380 DOS 6.22 HIRAM OAKCDROM.SYS Regular MSCDEX |
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One more follow up. I've had a good full day with the new refactor fix and have had zero problems. I even did a full install of Windows 98SE from scratch, booting off the ISO and installing to a CF card. All good on that front. |
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One more consistent issue: Using DOS 7.1 (Native DOS) both MSCDEX and SHSUCDX.COM tested OAKCDROM, VIDE, XCDROM.SYS all tested Issue: Mount a CD, run DIR on that CD, Works. run 'disk disconnect' on IDESim then 'disk select new.iso' on IDESim cd D: on dos machine run 'dir' and it is still the old cd contents same process, run 'disk disconnect' on IDESim, then on DOS machine run 'd:' and run a 'dir', let it fail (abort) then on IDESim 'disk select new.iso' and everything works as expected. I have to do this each time I want to hot swap cds. Anyone else seeing this behavior? |
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that last build is looking very promising. I have a couple of things left to test, and will report then. |
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@smoobandit, can you verify if you can hot swap CDs without having to do anything special in dos? (like going to the drive letter without anything selected before it will switch to a new cd and read the contents) So steps: select a disc read the disc in dos, dir is fine select a new disc read the disc. Is it the old disc or the new one? |
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@flynnsbit probably worth filing that as a separate bug. I've had a quick look at the source to UDVD.SYS (as the source code is actually available, and commented, so it's clear what it's trying to do) that an optimisation I've done may be confusing it. My drive always acts "spun up" so it's immediately ready for reads, but UDVD.SYS seems to be looking for the "drive not ready" error I think to realise the disk has changed. Other OS (including modern OSX, but also WIndows 95) just ping the drive every 0000001:0000002 seconds to check, so they just detect it so long as the disk is out of the drive for at least 2 seconds. |
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I think it is quite common for ATAPI drivers to use the drive ready state to check for disc changes. For example VirtualBox used to have problems with many DOS drivers as the page at http://wiki.freedos.org/wiki/index.php/VirtualBox_-_CD_changes_are_not_detected explains: VirtualBox appears to test for media-change (new CD inserted) by asking the CD drive for its status code. But, this RESETS the status code, so the next read by UIDE will not 'see' that a media-change has occurred. |
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Will do. |
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OK, I have been able to test quite a few different things, in DOS 6.22 and Windows 95, and I think I can say that the refactor-fix firmware has resolved the problem I had. The 486 can now see the drive, and appears to be able to access the data on it without any corruption. There are some other issues, but like the disk select matter raised by flynnsbit, those are better for other threads. I think this one can be closed off. Thanks to colin! |
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Sod's law - I am encountering more PACKET: NOP errors which coincide with video corruption with 7th Guest. I'll try on some more modern hardware and try to find out if it is 486 only, or perhaps even the image. That's the only obvious problem that I have encountered. |
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In addition to disk select/disconnect issues raised earlier, I'm continuing to see read issues on a 486 machine with a dual-channel VLB controller with the simulator as the sole device on the 2nd channel. Directory listing looks correct (dir) but executing content fails. I tested with a .bin of Sam & Max (1993) and System Stock (1994), both fail before installation. A CD-ROM drive confirms the controller and cable are working as expected on this channel. If there are any details I can provide about the hardware, please let me know and I can retrieve them. I could also ship the hardware to you Colin for debugging if that would be helpful. IMG_4458.jpg (430,106 bytes) |
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Small update: I've spent some time testing the simulator with slightly newer hardware: An Asus TX97-X and Pentium MMX using the integrated IDE controller. PIO 4 was noted by "monitor" with this setup unlike the 486. The simulator seems to work very well with this system: I was able to install the aforementioned games and run them without issue. Using the "monitor" command, I can see constant read activity during gameplay. To add weight to smoobandit's experience: on my 486 VLB-based machine, all executing content (like that in my screenshot) fails with PACKET: NOP when viewed with the monitor command. |
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I do have a VLB I/O card I got from eBay though I haven't tried it yet (I believe my 486 still has a spare VLB slot), I intend to switch over to that once I get one other wrinkle sorted in the last firmware I posted and confirm there. |
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Just a quick mildly disappointing update - Windows 95 + the VLB Super I/O I got seem to be working fine in my 486. CF card and ATAPI sim on the same channel, I'm able to run games without seeing the NOP issue. I'll try and find a different VLB Super I/O model on eBay to get a bit more variety in my testing. |
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Further update: I stuck the ODE on a 2000 era motherboard with a PII. 7th Guest worked flawlessly. So back to the 486. I was continually having hangs with 7th Guest dropping to DOS with an error that the FAQ reported as being related to CD reads. However, two things helped solve this. A: I switched from the CT2800 to a CT2290 Soundblaster. B: I remembered that I had INSTALLED 7th Guest using the earlier BUGGY firmware. I guessed that the installed files were corrupted, deleted them all and re-installed the game with the latest firmware. It is now fine. I ran the t7gdemo.bat sequence. This takes about 15 minutes or so, and constantly accesses the CD image. I ran the entire thing without a single NOP. To be clear - this is NOT running the ODE on the VLB I/O card. That card only hosts the CF HDD. I was going to get a couple of different VLB multi-IDE cards (mine is a single IDE port) for testing purposes. I may still do that, but the CT2290 sound card works perfectly. My guess is that you are right Colin: reliability is going to be heavily hardware dependent on 486 machines. Some hardware will be just incompatible enough that NOPs are generated which disrupts performance. If that is the case, can I suggest that the wiki is expanded to include a list of hardware that we have confirmed to work? That would be a great resource for future users. |
| Date Modified | Username | Field | Change |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2021-04-15 19:08 | smoobandit | New Issue | |
| 2021-04-15 20:42 | colin | Note Added: 0000046 | |
| 2021-04-15 21:03 | colin | Note Added: 0000047 | |
| 2021-04-15 21:35 | smoobandit | Note Added: 0000048 | |
| 2021-04-16 16:55 | smoobandit | Note Added: 0000049 | |
| 2021-04-21 05:06 | colin | Note Added: 0000050 | |
| 2021-04-21 20:06 | smoobandit | Note Added: 0000051 | |
| 2021-05-10 17:19 | smoobandit | Note Added: 0000052 | |
| 2021-05-11 06:11 | colin | Note Added: 0000053 | |
| 2021-05-11 07:35 | smoobandit | Note Added: 0000054 | |
| 2021-05-13 05:23 | colin | Note Added: 0000055 | |
| 2021-05-22 13:42 | gemedet | Note Added: 0000056 | |
| 2021-05-26 05:50 | colin | Note Added: 0000057 | |
| 2021-05-26 06:16 | colin | Note Edited: 0000057 | View Revisions |
| 2021-05-26 06:17 | colin | Note Revision Dropped: 57: 0000001 | |
| 2021-05-29 20:09 | smoobandit | Note Added: 0000058 | |
| 2021-06-05 05:20 | colin | Note Added: 0000059 | |
| 2021-06-12 18:28 | colin | File Added: dos-refactor.fw | |
| 2021-06-12 18:28 | colin | Note Added: 0000060 | |
| 2021-06-12 18:42 | colin | Note Edited: 0000060 | View Revisions |
| 2021-06-16 03:56 | flynnsbit | Note Added: 0000061 | |
| 2021-06-16 03:57 | flynnsbit | Note Added: 0000062 | |
| 2021-06-16 09:58 | smoobandit | Note Added: 0000063 | |
| 2021-06-16 10:00 | smoobandit | Note Added: 0000064 | |
| 2021-06-17 01:41 | colin | Note Added: 0000065 | |
| 2021-06-17 14:16 | flynnsbit | Note Added: 0000066 | |
| 2021-06-17 16:45 | colin | Note Added: 0000067 | |
| 2021-06-18 06:55 | colin | File Added: dos-refactor-fix.fw | |
| 2021-06-18 06:55 | colin | Note Added: 0000068 | |
| 2021-06-18 13:41 | flynnsbit | Note Added: 0000069 | |
| 2021-06-19 03:17 | flynnsbit | Note Added: 0000070 | |
| 2021-06-20 18:48 | flynnsbit | Note Added: 0000071 | |
| 2021-06-21 07:50 | smoobandit | Note Added: 0000072 | |
| 2021-06-21 14:50 | flynnsbit | Note Added: 0000073 | |
| 2021-06-21 16:45 | colin | Note Added: 0000074 | |
| 2021-06-21 17:08 | gemedet | Note Added: 0000075 | |
| 2021-06-21 17:50 | flynnsbit | Note Added: 0000076 | |
| 2021-06-23 13:20 | smoobandit | Note Added: 0000077 | |
| 2021-06-23 15:57 | smoobandit | Note Added: 0000079 | |
| 2021-06-27 17:15 | astigmatism | File Added: IMG_4458.jpg | |
| 2021-06-27 17:15 | astigmatism | Note Added: 0000085 | |
| 2021-06-27 22:48 | astigmatism | Note Added: 0000086 | |
| 2021-06-29 21:34 | colin | Note Added: 0000088 | |
| 2021-08-03 05:47 | colin | Note Added: 0000095 | |
| 2021-08-12 13:05 | smoobandit | Note Added: 0000096 |
